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Classic Bike Trackdays

This is a bit " Diffrent"---- mostly 2 stroke
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Straycat



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 165
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, todays topic is suspension, tracks and ski's

Suspension technology has evolved massively on sleds over time. Front suspension went from basic leaf spring, to trailing arm link, to independent a-arms with precision geometry. Shocks come in a very wide range of capabilty, some are basic and some are adjustable for rebound and compression and like moto-cross, can really take a beating. There are typically 2 shocks up front as youd expect, and 2 in the rear. 2 in the rear are set at opposite angles. Lots of different approaches to suspensions among the manufacturers, in this sport its a big point of differentiation. Arguably Ski-doo has the best rear suspenion in the market, front suspension is up for debate.


Tracks come in different lengths (measuresd in a circumference of the track). 120 inch is the shortest track, seen on the yellow and black sled above, then they go to 129 (black sled). 137 " ( orange and yellow sled) , 146, all up to 172. Paddle or lug size goes from 1.25 inch for a typical trail track to 2" or even 3" on a mountain sled. My son runs a 1.75 which is good off trail, and about as big as you want to go on a trail. Reason is, the tracks run on a combination of idler wheels and slider rails. The slider rails have a teflon plastic slider on the bottom which needs snow to cool and lubricate. If you run a lug thats too tall on hardpack, you melt the sliders. Sliders are a wear item that gets replaced now and then.

Ice picks and metal studs are usually added to the tracks to aid traction on icy surfaces, for stopping and starting. These can be drilled and screwed into the rubber track or now some tracks come pre studded. Few people run without studs .

Cooling can become and issue too if you monkey too much with tracks and snow flaps. The track has to be able to tear up suffiicienf hardpack snow from the trail to throw up into the chassis tunnel where thie cooling heat -exchangers are. The snow flap is an integral part of that process deflecting snow back onto the track to aid in the throw of snow onto to the exchangers. My son has a different snow flap and track to stock, track is designed for deeper snow, a good cross-over trail track. His snow flap is a snow-cross style and apparently looks cool.

Ski styles, shapes, widths, keel depth etc all vary depending on the style of riding and if you ride on or off trail. Each ski has a metal bar under it whcih in turn has a tungsten carbide sharpened edge. This carbide bites into the packed snow to allow you to steer without the front end pushing or understeering. The length and shape of the carbide also affects handling. My son runs an aftermarket ski thats wider with a very very aggressive keel and carbide combo. His sled is magnificent in deep snow and it handles like its on rails on the trail.....the down side is, its so aggressive its very hard to turn and tiring on the arms and hard on the steering components. I'd have arms like popeye if i had to ride it. Probably not an issue for him coz he's young and the ski's dont seem to be on the snow very much (see pic 5 on page 1)

Adjustment of the resr suspension ( there are 3 to 5 different adjsutment points in a rear skid) and the front suspension must be made depending on your weight and how you ride, in order to get the mcachine to handle properly
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2014 Honda VFR800
2015 Yamaha FJ09
2000 Kawasaki ZRX1100
1989 Yamaha RZ350 ypvs
1989 Yamaha FZR400
1987 Suzuki RG250 Gamma
1986 Honda NS400R
1988 RGV250 VJ21A-J
1986 Honda TLR200 Reflex
1985 Honda VF1000R (x2)
1985 Yamaha RZ500


Last edited by Straycat on Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Gillinghampaul



Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Posts: 655
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im really enjoying this, its great to learn aboutsomething interesting that iv never even looked at before, does make me want to emigrate though!
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Straycat



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 165
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I emigrated form the UK to Canada in 1978 with my parents, I'm in my 50's now, still got family in the UK.

Its a very different life style here for sure. A beautiful country and definitely a great place to call home

Part of my heart will always be in the UK though, that never leaves you (even when you leave as a young teenager) there is something very special about patriotism in the UK.
_________________
2014 Honda VFR800
2015 Yamaha FJ09
2000 Kawasaki ZRX1100
1989 Yamaha RZ350 ypvs
1989 Yamaha FZR400
1987 Suzuki RG250 Gamma
1986 Honda NS400R
1988 RGV250 VJ21A-J
1986 Honda TLR200 Reflex
1985 Honda VF1000R (x2)
1985 Yamaha RZ500
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Straycat



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 165
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The snowmobile industry is very fast paced in its technology enhancements, competition is fierce among the 4 manufacturers, which yields lots of cool stuff for the riders.

The next big thing will be breaking the 200Hp barrier, a few sleds are knocking on that door now with 4 stroke factory turbos' and it looks like most manufacturers will offer a 1000 - 1200 cc 4 stroke with either a turbo or a super charger in the next year or so.

Mosts trail sleds are in the 500 -600 lb range for weight, a few of them do weigh in under 500 lbs.

so you can see how the power to weight ratio makes these things as much fun as they are.

A few years ago, before the maijor onslaught of the 4 stroke, there were some real big 2 strokers on the snow. The Ski-doo Mach Z was a 1000cc 2 stroke, a real monster of a motor, you can see some pics of it here.

http://www.dootalk.com/forums/topic/587930-low-mileage-millennium/


and just so im not being totally biast to one manufacturer, heres a link to the Arctic cat site, this is their biggest 2 stroke today, their 800cc stroker, I think there are a few videos there too.

http://www.arcticcat.com/snow/sleds/model/2016-en-zr-8000-rr-129/

If you call em up...maybe they can ship to the UK Smile you can trailer it up to the scottish highlands, you may find a bit of snow there ?


-------------------------

Another cool feature of the 2 stroke sleds is their electronic reverse. basically at the push of a button, the ECU stalls the engine and re fires it running in reverse rotation. You back up, push the button again, the ECU stalls and re fires the engine running normally. The ECU does all that in just a couple of seconds.

2 strokes all have a computer controlled break-in period too. The engine power is limited and additional oil is fed automatically. The ECU monitors how hard you ride and automatically determines when the break-in period is over. Each time you start the sled during the break-in it gives you a % remaining of break-in.
_________________
2014 Honda VFR800
2015 Yamaha FJ09
2000 Kawasaki ZRX1100
1989 Yamaha RZ350 ypvs
1989 Yamaha FZR400
1987 Suzuki RG250 Gamma
1986 Honda NS400R
1988 RGV250 VJ21A-J
1986 Honda TLR200 Reflex
1985 Honda VF1000R (x2)
1985 Yamaha RZ500
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Straycat



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 165
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boondocking vs Trail Riding :

Trail riding takes place on groomed packed trails through fields and forests , trails maintained by clubs.

Boondocking is off trail riding through in un-groomed powder snow on what ever land you can find to legally ride - Key here is you need a good solid base of snow and a powder layer of snow -- we do NOT have this yet in my area

why am I telling you this ? because my son is a big time boondocker, and today he completely F'd his sled.

doing a wheelie in powder, he came down on a rock hidden in the snow. the rock hit the metal area under the sled that is immediately in front of the track. Right at this place there is a front heat exchanger ( a radiator of sorts - an extruded aluminum finned box with engine coolant running through it)...correction, there WAS a front heat exchanger. Its been torn completely out, the metal belly is bent, and we dont yet know if the drive axle that drives the track is bent or not.

Best Case is $1000 for a new exchanger to be installed, worst case the Sled is a write off due to a bent chassis.

either way I wont be paying the bill.

Im glad he's ok, thats the main thing, lessons learned on what not to do when the snow pack is insufficient, and a group of teenage boys get juiced up on testosterone.

part of the off -road sport i guess, but you gotta pay if your gonna play
_________________
2014 Honda VFR800
2015 Yamaha FJ09
2000 Kawasaki ZRX1100
1989 Yamaha RZ350 ypvs
1989 Yamaha FZR400
1987 Suzuki RG250 Gamma
1986 Honda NS400R
1988 RGV250 VJ21A-J
1986 Honda TLR200 Reflex
1985 Honda VF1000R (x2)
1985 Yamaha RZ500
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Top-shaggy
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Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 1757
Location: Derbyshire

PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boondocking? Just where do these terms come from? Sound so cool Smile

Glad your lads ok.. Boys will be boys Smile
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Straycat



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Top-shaggy wrote:
Boondocking? Just where do these terms come from? Sound so cool Smile

Glad your lads ok.. Boys will be boys Smile


Yea, I dunno who comes up with these names.

Yes, Im glad he is ok, thats the main thing.

bad season for us so far due to lower snow fall than usual.

I just spoke to my snowmobile dealer (great guy), he was waiting for his son to limp his sled back to the dealership, he apparently hit a rock boondocking too. He also told me that another guy (good customer and friend) died on tuesday, hit a rock then ran off the trail and into a tree. All in all, we have to be thankful that its just a bit of bent metal, Sleds can be fixed or replaced.

As with any motorsport (on or off road) there are hazzards.
_________________
2014 Honda VFR800
2015 Yamaha FJ09
2000 Kawasaki ZRX1100
1989 Yamaha RZ350 ypvs
1989 Yamaha FZR400
1987 Suzuki RG250 Gamma
1986 Honda NS400R
1988 RGV250 VJ21A-J
1986 Honda TLR200 Reflex
1985 Honda VF1000R (x2)
1985 Yamaha RZ500
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Straycat



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 165
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like $1400 to fix the damage...could have been worse
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2014 Honda VFR800
2015 Yamaha FJ09
2000 Kawasaki ZRX1100
1989 Yamaha RZ350 ypvs
1989 Yamaha FZR400
1987 Suzuki RG250 Gamma
1986 Honda NS400R
1988 RGV250 VJ21A-J
1986 Honda TLR200 Reflex
1985 Honda VF1000R (x2)
1985 Yamaha RZ500
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James P



Joined: 31 Mar 2013
Posts: 184
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Straycat wrote:
Top-shaggy wrote:
Boondocking? Just where do these terms come from? Sound so cool Smile

Glad your lads ok.. Boys will be boys Smile


Yea, I dunno who comes up with these names.


The "boondocks" is anywhere which is off the beaten track - quite literally in this case! See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boondocks for supposed origin of the term.

Regards,
James
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Straycat



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 165
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, very fitting, apparently sled-necks do know what they're talking about
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2014 Honda VFR800
2015 Yamaha FJ09
2000 Kawasaki ZRX1100
1989 Yamaha RZ350 ypvs
1989 Yamaha FZR400
1987 Suzuki RG250 Gamma
1986 Honda NS400R
1988 RGV250 VJ21A-J
1986 Honda TLR200 Reflex
1985 Honda VF1000R (x2)
1985 Yamaha RZ500
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Straycat



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 165
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So as you'd expect with any motor sport, problems and break downs occur. Here is a great youtube video from my home province of Ontario showing an angry Arctic Cat owner ......

https://m.youtube.com/watch?sns=em&v=Y996njQGekg
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2014 Honda VFR800
2015 Yamaha FJ09
2000 Kawasaki ZRX1100
1989 Yamaha RZ350 ypvs
1989 Yamaha FZR400
1987 Suzuki RG250 Gamma
1986 Honda NS400R
1988 RGV250 VJ21A-J
1986 Honda TLR200 Reflex
1985 Honda VF1000R (x2)
1985 Yamaha RZ500
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Top-shaggy
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Joined: 05 Mar 2011
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Location: Derbyshire

PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha

Funny video, wouldn't be so funny trapped out there especially if Suns going down..

Looking on tube seems to be loads of complaints about Cat sleds....
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Straycat



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 165
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Top-shaggy wrote:
Haha

Funny video, wouldn't be so funny trapped out there especially if Suns going down..

Looking on tube seems to be loads of complaints about Cat sleds....


Yea, its why you never ride alone in this sport, and you always carry a tow rope and emergency kit.

Im sure every manufacturer has had their era of less than reliable sleds,

we're all very brand loyal, I dont see my self ever buying a new Arctic Scrap, I also have argualby the best "Ski-Doo" Dealership 5 mnutes from my house, where the service and people are top notch. So for me, I get what I beleive is the highest quality product on the market, and top draw service at my door step. Hard to beat.
_________________
2014 Honda VFR800
2015 Yamaha FJ09
2000 Kawasaki ZRX1100
1989 Yamaha RZ350 ypvs
1989 Yamaha FZR400
1987 Suzuki RG250 Gamma
1986 Honda NS400R
1988 RGV250 VJ21A-J
1986 Honda TLR200 Reflex
1985 Honda VF1000R (x2)
1985 Yamaha RZ500
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nick69
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Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 108
Location: Pontefract West Yorks

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow,just caught up with one,cheers for posting mate Cool
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Straycat



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 165
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My buddy got one of these this year, a Polaris Rush ProS

http://www.polaris.com/en-ca/snowmobiles/800-rush-pro-s-le

slightly more forward riding position than mine, kinda like comparing a Super Sport with a Standard motor cycle, R1 to FZ1 you might say

Gonna give it a try next week, I may have to wash my snowmobile suit after touching a polaris tho Smile


the polaris have very different rear suspension and chassis design, they look like the back end has been lopped off and some contraption gerry rigged on the back
_________________
2014 Honda VFR800
2015 Yamaha FJ09
2000 Kawasaki ZRX1100
1989 Yamaha RZ350 ypvs
1989 Yamaha FZR400
1987 Suzuki RG250 Gamma
1986 Honda NS400R
1988 RGV250 VJ21A-J
1986 Honda TLR200 Reflex
1985 Honda VF1000R (x2)
1985 Yamaha RZ500
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