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Classic Bike Trackdays

This is a bit " Diffrent"---- mostly 2 stroke
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Top-shaggy
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Joined: 05 Mar 2011
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Location: Derbyshire

PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite like the Alien front but the back end looks like a Morris 1100
Wink
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Straycat



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ill post again here, just for your interest on the next generation of 2 stroke engines just released by SKI-DOO (Bombardier). Ther Rotax 2 strokes have been a leader in technology for a long time.

Just introduced today is a new engine and chassis combo.

the 850cc Etec is the motor, this from snowtech magazine online:

"Rotax 850 E-TEC Engine: This new engine is found in all of the GEN 4 REV models from the Summit to the Renegade and MX Zs. It has so much new technology packed into it that it would take a full chapter of a book to do it the justice it deserves. I will touch only on the high points for this article.

..It has many unique new features that are first to the snowmobile industry like Direct Bearing Oiling, Plasma coated cylinders and Booster injectors just to name a few..

It has an 82 mm bore with 80.4 mm stroke providing 849.188 cc of displacement. Compared to the old engine the bore remains the same and the stroke is lengthened to attain the extra 50 cc displacement (800 E-tec is 82mm bore with a 76 mm stroke which is 799.5 cc displacement). It is claimed to have 10 horsepower more than then 800 E-TEC which Ski-Doo says is 165 horsepower (we feel this quoted number is very realistic considering the extra displacement and technology packed into this engine). It makes its peak horsepower at 8000 to 8100 rpm.



This new 850 E-TEC Engine uses second generation E-TEC direct injection. While the method of injecting fuel into the engine is similar, the whole system has been refined. Booster Injectors have been added to the intake. When you snap the throttle in mid to high rpm areas, the boost injectors add fuel to increase the response. The throttle bodies are also 35% closer to the cylinder and are 10% lighter even with the booster injectors. They are said to also add throttle response.



A new eR.A.V.E. exhaust valve system is used on the new 850 engine. The valves still have 3 distinct positions as the engine rpm varies but they now open and close 3 times faster than on the 800 engine. This also adds to the snappy response of this engine.


The Electronic Control Module (ECM) is 2 times faster on the 850 than the 800. Its microprocessor now cycles at 32 million cycles per second. "


if i didnt dispise the new body style so much, id be tempted to trade in my 2015 800 Etec.

also with the new 850 etec the 2 stroke oil consumption is 40% less than the 800. the 800 was already miserly on oil, it's mind blowing how little oil these new motors use.

Apaprently the cylinders are plasma coated (not chrome or nicasil)
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Top-shaggy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fantastic technology - shows if they really wanted to bring back two strokes in the UK ... , they could.

eR.A.V.E exhaust? What kind of mushrooms was the designer eating then?
Bet he / she is around 45 now, dreaming up a name like that..lol
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Straycat



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the link to the ski-doo page for anyone wanting to read more on some of the 2 stroke technology. There are still many millions of dollars being invested in developing the latest and greatest 2 stroke technologies, they are not going away anytime soon.

http://www.ski-doo.com/ca/technologies/rotax-850-e-tec-engine.html

and thier youtube video, the engine specific stuff starts a short ways in.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c1LoVKaC8Ds
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2014 Honda VFR800
2015 Yamaha FJ09
2000 Kawasaki ZRX1100
1989 Yamaha RZ350 ypvs
1989 Yamaha FZR400
1987 Suzuki RG250 Gamma
1986 Honda NS400R
1988 RGV250 VJ21A-J
1986 Honda TLR200 Reflex
1985 Honda VF1000R (x2)
1985 Yamaha RZ500
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Straycat



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Top-shaggy wrote:
eR.A.V.E exhaust? What kind of mushrooms was the designer eating then?
Bet he / she is around 45 now, dreaming up a name like that..lol


LOL yea, the R.A.V.E valve name has been around for a good 15 years for Skid-Doo, but I get your point Smile
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2014 Honda VFR800
2015 Yamaha FJ09
2000 Kawasaki ZRX1100
1989 Yamaha RZ350 ypvs
1989 Yamaha FZR400
1987 Suzuki RG250 Gamma
1986 Honda NS400R
1988 RGV250 VJ21A-J
1986 Honda TLR200 Reflex
1985 Honda VF1000R (x2)
1985 Yamaha RZ500
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Gillinghampaul



Joined: 15 Aug 2012
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Location: Kent

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are there emission controls where you are? And are these two strokes very environmentally friendly?
If so i think a petition needs starting with the big bike manufacturers, an 850 2 stroke making over 160 horses would be a riot on the roads or track, im guessing it would be quite a light engine, my 955 daytona doesnt make that much!
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Straycat



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes very strict EPA Emissions standards. These engines are used world wide and these sleds run very very clean, the 2 strokes produce almost no smoke and no smell. Bombardier Ski-doo 2 strokes run cleaner than some of the competitors 4 strokes.

EPA Standards are increased every few years and it really pushes the technologies to evolve to meet the requirements.

The older technology 2 strokes have been phased out now, they didnt meet the standards, but the the ones are more powerful, more reliable and better emissions

The Rotax (Austrian division owned by Bombardier) Engines are used in outboard motors, snowmobiles, watercraft, 3 wheel bikes Can-Am Spyder, ATV's , go-Carts. I think even Aprillia run (or used to run) Rotax 4 strokes.

http://www.brp.com/en-ca/innovation/eco-performance-technologies/2-stroke-engines
http://www.brp.com/en-ca/engines/brps-rotax-engines
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2014 Honda VFR800
2015 Yamaha FJ09
2000 Kawasaki ZRX1100
1989 Yamaha RZ350 ypvs
1989 Yamaha FZR400
1987 Suzuki RG250 Gamma
1986 Honda NS400R
1988 RGV250 VJ21A-J
1986 Honda TLR200 Reflex
1985 Honda VF1000R (x2)
1985 Yamaha RZ500
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Top-shaggy
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wish they would use the clean 2 stroke engines again in the UK road bikes Smile
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The Cameraman



Joined: 22 Aug 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Shaun,

yes please.
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Straycat



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, It seems the Motorcycle world moved on in the 80's and never looked back, meanwhile the snowmobile and outboard motor industry kept both 2 and 4 strokes very much alive.

It was in the early-mid 2000's when the make-it or break-it time came for the 2 stroke in snowmobiles. Revised EPA emission standards were released in early 2000's with a 2006 (i think it was) deadline/high-bar to meet for emissions. With that hurdle on the horizon, a lot had to change. Some manufacturers (like Yamaha) went full blow 4 stroke (no 2 strokes at al in their sleds for a long time). Polaris are 2 stroke only , Ski-doo and Arctic cat have invested in both 2 and 4 stroke. So 3 of the 4 manufacturers spent a lot of money developing some state of the art clean 2 strokes in the last 10 years or so. These strokers are honestly getting cleaner and more powerful every year, and reliability is excellent (not that they didnt all have their issues fromtime to time over the past 10 years ).

it seems like the rest of the motor industry left the 2 stroke behind and still thinks of the 2 stoke as a pollution, smell and blue smoke generator, but the truth is far from that now.

If you saw how little 2 stroke oil these new engines actually use, you'd wonder how the heck they dont sieze up.

Another interesting fact is the Suzuki is still making one of Acritc Cats EPA compliant 2strokes. Longtime relationship between suzuki and Arctic cat for 2stroke engines. That's coming to an end very likely, arctic cat are building their own 2 stroke and ave big partnership with Yamaha for the 4 strokes
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2014 Honda VFR800
2015 Yamaha FJ09
2000 Kawasaki ZRX1100
1989 Yamaha RZ350 ypvs
1989 Yamaha FZR400
1987 Suzuki RG250 Gamma
1986 Honda NS400R
1988 RGV250 VJ21A-J
1986 Honda TLR200 Reflex
1985 Honda VF1000R (x2)
1985 Yamaha RZ500
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Straycat



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last ride of the winter yesterday, the big thaw is now starting.









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2014 Honda VFR800
2015 Yamaha FJ09
2000 Kawasaki ZRX1100
1989 Yamaha RZ350 ypvs
1989 Yamaha FZR400
1987 Suzuki RG250 Gamma
1986 Honda NS400R
1988 RGV250 VJ21A-J
1986 Honda TLR200 Reflex
1985 Honda VF1000R (x2)
1985 Yamaha RZ500
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Top-shaggy
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very impressive machines !!
Really enjoyed your posts and pictures over the winter
A big thaw for you probably also means better weather for us in the UK... I did say probably mind Smile
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Straycat



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to all of you for indulging in my passion for Sleds.

We'll have 6- 8 weeks of warm weather (above freezing) before the good Bike riding weather arrives, no good for snowmobile trails and no good for motorcyles either till end of April (at least thats the case up north where I live).

Il put the sleds away next weekend, the 2 strokes are easy to store, a good cleaning , Fuell Stablizer, Grease, connect battery tender and they have a computerized self summerization funciton built into the ECU witch automatically foggs the engine with extra oil for long term storage and shuts itself off.

The 4 stroke has to go to the dealer for its first service anyway.

im looking forward to getting back to the Bikes again now, a few projects on the books for this year:

-Finish the RG250 (my updates here have dried up due to lack of progress)
-Put the New Wheels/Tires and Brakes on the NS400r
-New Fuel Pump on the FZR400
-keep my eyes peeled for next years project Bike
-Some spare bodywork for the NS and the RZ that i need to plastic weld and get ready for paint
-May even find time to Ride Smile
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2014 Honda VFR800
2015 Yamaha FJ09
2000 Kawasaki ZRX1100
1989 Yamaha RZ350 ypvs
1989 Yamaha FZR400
1987 Suzuki RG250 Gamma
1986 Honda NS400R
1988 RGV250 VJ21A-J
1986 Honda TLR200 Reflex
1985 Honda VF1000R (x2)
1985 Yamaha RZ500
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Straycat



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oooops.

In a moment of weakness, I accidentally bought one of the new 2017 Ski-doo's with the new 850cc 2stroke. The new body style grew on me, and the sheer performance of this new sled just had to be tried.

My Orange and Yellow 2015 sold yesterday and my spring order special edition Renegade X 850 (in orange crush) will be here in the fall.
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2014 Honda VFR800
2015 Yamaha FJ09
2000 Kawasaki ZRX1100
1989 Yamaha RZ350 ypvs
1989 Yamaha FZR400
1987 Suzuki RG250 Gamma
1986 Honda NS400R
1988 RGV250 VJ21A-J
1986 Honda TLR200 Reflex
1985 Honda VF1000R (x2)
1985 Yamaha RZ500
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The Cameraman



Joined: 22 Aug 2015
Posts: 608
Location: Lancashire

PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Straycat,

accidentally my arse!

Well done that man.
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