Diff'rent Strokers

[Coffeebaron]

So i've been thinking lately, why do so many motorcyclists dismiss the 2 stroke engine as unreliable, and the bikes that use it as rolling advertisment for the AA.

I'm looking to ditch the whole 4 stroke thing and return to 2, as to be frank, my 4 stroke bikes (some 65% of all bikes I've owned, some 23ish so far) have been the most unreliable. With the exception of Honda V4's from the 90's (reg rec's not withstanding....) and my current CBR, they have left me stranded, suffered random electrical problems, cam chain issues, oil leaks and even a blown bottom end (my fault on an SV65O)

So I tried to think back to my two strokes.... 2 italians, 2 japanese- a Cagiva Planet and Aprilia RS125 and a Yamaha DT125 and RD350ypvs. Excluding the RD (a real lemon, the guy saw me coming and must have fought hard not to grin like a loon...) the other 3 gave me no ongoing issues as such. The planet saw about 23000 miles, the RS about the same, and the DT about 7k.

Sure I blew the planet once, just the top end, and the RS twice, once the top and the other the con rod into the barrel wall.
But despite this, they took me everywhere, all year, and always thrashed, not really cared for as they should have been. I couldn't really ask for more. Yet as stated my 4 strokes have had lots of niggles and faults and cost £££ on an ongoing basis. The 2 strokes just the couple of big spends.

So where does everyone sit with my views? Anyone else think along similar lines
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Must remember, keep the clutch covered....your not on a 4 stroke now.

[R1Zman]

I think you're right - although I've never been stranded (I wish I hadn't said that) I've had 4S problems - electrical faults (new ducati 750SS) & infrequent stalling (Aprilia RSV) - & the well known Aprilia lack of back brake or weekly bleeding session. Add rattly ZX6R cam chain adjuster & maybe 4 strokes are not as reliable as we think - though my last 4S CB1000R was always perfect, but ever so slightly too refined!
Never had a problem with strokers in the past except an RD250 rebore & killswitch short. Current bike is 23 years old, & has failed twice. Actually it hasn't - once i'd hit the killswitch & got a sweat on with the kickstart before I realised what i'd done, & secondly when I ran onto reserve on first ride of the year - having forgotten there was a reserve in the first place.
It's a myth really - strokers broke down regularly back in the day due to the abuse we gave them with 2 star petrol & riffler files to the ports, so we should really be comparing old strokers with old diesels & not CBR's, where the only fiddling is to add a loud pipe usually!
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Anyone who uses the term "workshop" outside the context of light engineering is a twat! (Alexei Sayle)

[Top-shaggy]

I take my little AR125s for miles.. Total confidence they will do the coast run which is 200 mile round trip. Not so confident in some of the other two strokes I have though..

Main reason for me taking out a two stroke rather than one of the diesels is pure fun, noise, smell, zany power bands and far far less likely to lose my license... Reliability is not really on my mind
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We are where we are...

[Coffeebaron]

Glad to see a couple of responses guys, and despite the potential for being biased with this being a stroker site lol, so balanced comments.

@ R1Zman- The abuse factor always seems to be at the forefront as to why the 2t have such a bad reputation for being fragile, and having gained the mechanical empathy I have now, I'm curious to see just how reliable a well cared for and regularly ridden 2t can be. Oh and nice to see the superstition of cursing oneself is strong on this forum sure you won't be left stranded anytime soon.

@Top Shaggy- I gathered from checking out some of the other posts you've a pretty huge collection dude, but which ones in particular do you lack the confidence in and why? I agree that most of the joy in 2t is the pleasure of the senses they impart over a 4t, and it being clock like dependable is secondary, but to still have an air of dependability must come into it somewhere

I think it would be great to dispel the myth that 2t are unreliable, especially to the masses of riders who will likely be raised on 4t now...may see a return to development of some new 2t road bikes.
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Must remember, keep the clutch covered....your not on a 4 stroke now.

[Top-shaggy]

Hugh collection... Think you have me mixed up with some of the others on here

I can't see any new 2Ts in the UK anytime soon due to emissions rather than anything else. The youngsters soon won't know what a 2T is and therefore won't be attracted unless one for sale was a) cheaper b) faster than the 4T equivalents etc.

I agree that for most 2Ts using them frequently seems to keep them strong for miles and miles.. However, tuning them up significantly does tend to throw reliability into the bin.. Brightest candle burns half as long.. Etc

I suppose its a confidence thing.. My KMX200 is probably one of the most comfy bikes to ride of any I have... But I just wouldn't trust it to do a 250mile round trip. Then again I wouldn't take the busa green lane'in.. (Aren't I boring..hehe)

But I also feel I know the ARs so well I could repair them and get home using Sellotape, string and an old sock.. (..of course this isn't true and I've just been very lucky with repairs to the AR at the side of the road including on the M1 where I had to strip it to find a break in the loom)

The longer the 2Ts are out of general circulation the less the younger generation will want to have one. The spares will get harder to get and more expensive (as if they aren't already) and they will be relegated to bikes ridden by old farts.. Like meeeeeeee
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We are where we are...

[R1Zman]

@ Coffeebaron, yep I think mechanical empathy comes with age & patience. I sit there for several minutes warming the R1Z before setting off - if I were still 18 I probably couldn't be arsed! I'm sure consumables - fuel, oils, filters etc are of a higher quality now, & even though not that many places service & repair strokers now, those that do will have (hopefully) higher standards than some of the back street dealers I used in the past (due to money being tight)! Actually - thats another point - most riders on this site have either vast experience &/or the readies to keep their bikes in good nick - & you'll always look after your favourite toy better than a workhorse. Despite being 2 strokes - there's something "eco" about seeing the efforts these guys put in to return some of these bikes back to their former glory (& better) - a bit like renovating a 17th century cottage with a new thatched roof, but also a power shower & underfloor heating......
Having said all that I've taken out breakdown recovery - just in case! (I never did this with the CB1000R)
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Anyone who uses the term "workshop" outside the context of light engineering is a twat! (Alexei Sayle)

[Top-shaggy]

[Coffeebaron]

@ Top Shaggy- you know what they say about the word assume.... I'd assumed you had a large collection as I noticed you posted regularly.

There is the technology to make a very clean, fi modern 2 stroke, heck just look at the motorcross world, and even Cagiva with their mito 525. But to the big manufacturers, they are not as lucrative as the 4 stroke, seeing as the aftersale and aftercare market isn't as dependant on the dealer.

I do feel sorry for the youth of today and future gens who will probably never think to try a 2 stroke, but as you said.....more for the likes of you and me

and..R1Zman wrote:

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Having said all that I've taken out breakdown recovery - just in case! (I never did this with the CB1000R)

Haha, this had me chuckling. Just carry a spare top end and some basic tools with you everywhere you go....oh and a phone!
_________________
Must remember, keep the clutch covered....your not on a 4 stroke now.