Diff'rent Strokers

arlurt · Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:00 am Post subject:

I had another phone call from GAC Logistics (UK) Ltd on Friday afternoon… A helpful lady called Emma told me that the NYK Aquarius will arrive in Southampton on Tuesday 2nd of October at 09:30. She said she will call me when it’s been unloaded, with a total to be paid to Customs and Excise, and to arrange delivery. She even said she could arrange for the delivery driver to collect my cheque at the same time as he drops off the engine.

Can it really be going this well?

We’ll see before too long.

Wink

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arlurt · Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject:

Well I suppose we all knew the good-news-high wouldn’t last long…

My next contact with GAC logistics was with the Newcastle office. My file had been passed to them and they’d be handling it from now on. Two days later they rang to tell me that the NYK Aquarius had arrived in Southampton, and that once I paid my final bill they’d get it on it’s way to me.

That final bill turned out to be £328 in fees and “ancillaries” and £72 in VAT. I rang ‘em to see what the score was and was told that carriage was only paid as far as Southampton, which to be fair was what “From Japan” had told me. I asked what the “ancillaries” were, and was told they were port handling, dealing with port paperwork, dealing with Customs and Excise, paperwork, and carriage to York. In short the only bit I could avoid was carriage to York, and that would mean going to Southampton to get it, and all the things that could go wrong once I got there.

OK… Do you take Credit Cards? “Yes, but there’s a fee…” Sad

It arrived on the day promised, but on each of the three occasions I spoke to GAC to ask when it would be arriving, they told me they would call me back and never did.

One 50Kg undamaged plywood case was carried to the garage by the driver and I.

He left, I opened the box…

It was as the pictures on Yahoo Japan showed it to be. A dry-clutch 3XV TZR250 engine. I could see oil in the gearbox sight glass, a good sign...

The gearbox sprocket turned easily, but what about the kickstart…?
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arlurt · Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:20 pm Post subject:

Well of course the kickstart doesn’t move! The engine is seized solid.

I had a good look round it. One of the right cylinder head dome nuts is hammered over, and one head nut sheared off, as a result of the smash that did for the rest of the bike I assume.

I’d seen both these problems in the pictures on the Yahoo auction and wasn’t too concerned. What I hadn’t seen from their pictures was that the sheared nut had been punched through the cylinder head into the water jacket. Sad

You might just be able to see the hole near the missing stud at the last 'A' of YAMAHA.

OK, I have a spare cylinder head, and some other bits to work with, I can fix that.

The power valve linkage has taken quite a hit, but with it removed both valves move OK, and the seals are in tact which implies they haven’t done much work.

Looking up the exhaust ports, both cylinder bores looked really good, shiny, with clearly visible honing marks, and rings in tact on both pistons. I felt a little better.

I removed the damaged right cylinder head to see what’s what in there. The head has to come off so that I can fit a new stud to the cylinder and swap it for my un-holed spare cylinder head.

The head gasket was missing, so I’m not the first to visit. The cylinder and piston had some alloy corrosion, as though the engine’s been stored with water in it. I rubbed round the bore and piston with a rag and WD40. It came clean easily, and looks in good order.

I wondered if maybe the engine had been OK when removed, but then had been power-washed, and left stood awaiting sale with water in the bore. I took a good heavy hammer and a length of wood, pressed the wood hard against the crown of the piston and gave it a good whack. Nothing. No movement. Absolutely solid.

Once again I’m thwarted. I really can’t do any more on it until I finish working on the house and garage, so I’ve put the head back on, with a good squirt of WD40 in both pots and put the engine to one side to wait until I’m in a position to strip it. I hope to find that it’s just the right cylinder, seized in it’s bore, and that when I take the right barrel off the crank and left cylinder turn over cleanly. Just like me, you’ll have to wait to find out.
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arlurt · Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject:

It's not seized any more! Smile

But the crank is knackered... Crying or Very sad

I pulled the left cylinder head off tonight, nice looking cylinder, no corrosion, no scoring that matters. The power-valve was a bit dry, a lot of burnt on carbon but it came out OK. The cylinder came off alright too. The piston moves freely on the little end but the rod is locked fast to the crank pin… Confused

I shone a torch in there and saw rust at the bottom.

So now we know what happens when you power-wash a perfectly good engine, with the exhaust removed, and then store it in a tropical climate for a few months or maybe years.

I squirted a load of WD40 in to the cases and rocked the big end free, and put the cylinder back on. Then I took off the left side engine cover, put a spanner on the crankshaft end nut and rocked it back and forth until it was free.

It now turns over OK, with the spanner on the crank, and on the kick start, but the bearings and maybe the crank will be shot.

So now I have two TZR250 3XV engines with knackered cranks and bearings, both on the same cylinder. I’m sure if you look back though this sorry tale you’ll find this identified as the worst possible outcome.

I haven’t established yet if this engine is an SP or an RS. I can, because I have bought a set of SP power-valves and know they’re different from the ones in my RS. When the garage is finished I’ll dig them out of their hiding place and see what I’ve got. If it’s an RS I can make one good crank out of the poorly pair, and the bearings are cheaper than the SP. If it’s an SP I’ve got to pray that the crank bearing surfaces are recoverable, and buy a set of SP bearings and seals.

Wish me luck, please…
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arlurt · Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject:

I've searched round on some of the translated 3XV websites this afternoon, trying to see what my new engine is.

Assuming it's as Yamaha built it, and that the cylinders haven't been swapped, I think I've got a 1993 RS 3XV9. This model had the 3XV-30 cylinders that are fitted to my new engine, and the dry clutch. The R had the same cylinders but with a wet clutch, and the SP had different cylinders. No SP had 3XV-30 cylinders.

This is good news. It means it's closely related to my blown engine, a 1992 3XV8, and that I should be able to make one good crank out of the dead pair. I'll still have to strip them both, and will use the best bits from each...

I had liked the idea that I might have got an SP, but given the state of the crank in the new engine it's good news that it's not.
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StrokerBoy · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:35 pm Post subject:

Remember this ?

For the benefit of everyone else on here, I've known and worked with Karl for over 20 years now. That picture above is of 'OXO', my first car, a foolish impulse purchase that turned my life upside down for 9 months as it slowly ate itself.

Every day when I arrived at work in despair at yet another rumbling noise or oil leak, it was Karl who always found the silver lining, cheering me up by saying "it'll be right" and suggesting the pair of us whip the crank out and fix it during lunch break. Eventually, I threw some money at it and it was sorted, properly, and became the great car it should have been to start with. Naturally I sold it immediately. Wink

Now the situation is reversed so I feel I should do my cheerleading bit, in the absence of the optimist Karl of old.

Your TZR is a great little bike, and deserves to be back on the road. There's plenty of 'em out there being ridden without any problems, there's no basic design fault that says they can't be perfectly reliable.

There's nothing mysterious about what's wrong with it. You're an above-average engineer/mechanic with all the tools and skills to strip and rebuild it, and there's plenty of people out there who can do the bits you can't. A crank is just a few bits of metal, there's nothing special about it really - it was made once before, it can be made again, probably better than Yamaha-san did it the first time.

When you hear about people who can graft an extra cylinder or two onto an existing engine just for something to do, or those who scratch-build a 1/24th scale Ferrari V12 engine that actually runs, you've got to admit yours is a pretty easy job. You'll have to spend a few quid but you're used to that... Shocked

Strip it and send the bits off to PJ Engineering or whoever, you can have it all back together and running by the end of next week. Thumbs Up

arlurt · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:45 pm Post subject:

I know...

I've been in touch with PJ Engineering, the chap who replied says he has a 3XV, and that they can do the crank. Prices seem OK, but obviously they need the cranks so that they can have a look and see what can be done.

I will get it sorted out, but I must stop myself doing the sort of concours restoration that some owners are doing. I want it nice, but usable... Wink

But then I see pictures like this...

A vapour balsted 3XV engine being rebuilt by "honkdawillydahonk" on the Yahoo TZR forum, and I get very envious, and think I must try harder.
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arlurt · Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:01 pm Post subject:

I’ve been on eBay again… One of those rare and exciting times when you find that mislabelled item that no one else knows about, (you hope), what Strokerboy calls “eBay Gold”! There was a chap in Monmouth selling 3XV engine parts, correctly described as TZR250, but mostly mislabelled as 3VX, rather than 3XV.

I’ve been worried about my blown engine, the one with the broken up big end that has seized the crank in the cases, and what damage there might be to the cases themselves. Monmouth man, (sorry but he’s never given me his name) had what appeared to be most of an engine, but selling it as 14 separate lots. There were engine cases, a wet clutch cover, a clutch, a gearbox, two cylinders and heads, reed blocks, a stator, a rotor, various engine internals, and a few new gaskets and brake calliper seals. The start prices of the items were all good, but postage was high, particularly if he wouldn’t combine postage.

A quick check of his “eBay Completed Items” revealed he’d also tried to sell Head and Base Gaskets, a Clutch Cover Gasket, and a New Crank Shaft! These had all been ended early… I eMailed him to see if he still had any of them, and to ask if there was anything else.

The crank had apparently been sold off-eBay, but he was very uncommunicative on the other items. I tried several times, but he just didn’t want to talk. He eventually told me that yes he would combine postage so I got my self set up to bid.

I manage to win everything except the rotor and stator, which went to a zero rated bidder in Croatia for £12 and £28.50 respectively. He must’ve been keen because he’d put his first bid of over £28 is five days before the auction ended, and two more subsequently higher bids to make sure!

Having won most of the engine I eMailed the seller again. As I’d won most of it, and assuming he’d taken it apart in the fist place, would he throw in the nuts, bolts, studs and washers that should hold it all together? No response.

I had an eMail giving me a new total to pay, with very reasonable combined postage, which I paid. Then another eMail with details of the carrier, and the delivery date.

So what have I got…?

At first glance all looks well, but there are a few worrying signs. One of the cylinder bas flanges has been “ported”, as has one of the cylinders. There’s aluminium filings over most of the bits. The cylinders and heads have been blasted, but this looks to have marked one of the bores. And frustratingly I’ve got none of the fasteners to put all of these pieces in to one easily stored, engine shaped lump, so if I try to pick this up it’s all over the place!

More to follow when I’ve had a proper look at everything.
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arlurt · Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:38 am Post subject:

I’ve had time to look at my new engine bits and have a think… They’re OK, but I'm annoyed about some of the detail. The seller’s descriptions were all very brief, and didn’t mention some things which I think he should have. I’ve left him positive feedback because though the parts are not as good as I’d hoped, they weren’t expensive.

So what are the problems…

The crankcases have been “ported” where the cylinder bolts on. Metal has been removed to match the crankcase to the base gasket, and thus to the porting in the cylinder. This looks to be quite a nice job, but only one cylinder has been done, and this really should have been declared in the item description. Just look at the differences between the Left and Right cylinder mounting faces.

As a result of the porting, all of the engine parts are covered aluminium swarf, which is also annoying.

The cylinders and heads have been blasted to clean them, but this is quite a rough job, and has damaged the surface finish of the bores.

Most annoying is the lack of fasteners, nuts, bolts, studs, washers and some minor components. Having won twelve of the fourteen lots I’d eMailed the seller asking if we could come to an arrangement on the fasteners and any other bits he had. He didn’t reply, and didn’t just included them as I’d hoped.

The engine has been dismantled, I assume by the seller, so where are the bits to fasten it together? If I had the bolts I could assemble it all into one easily stored, engine shaped lump. Without the bolts it will forever be a bag of bits, and I’m short of a stock of spares fasteners for the other two engines.

I think all of the parts are useable, but some will need work. At present I think I will use these engine cases to house the rebuilt engine for my bike. I’ll give them a thorough inspection, finish off the porting, get them vapour blasted and repainted.

Assuming the task goes well, and I have a running dry-clutch motor for my bike I will still have a second complete dry-clutch motor, and most of a wet clutch one as well. So do I sell these to recover some of my £1000 cost on the alternative engine? Or having found how hard it is to get an engine “From Japan” do I simply keep it on the shelf, ready for the next blow up….?
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StrokerBoy · Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:30 pm Post subject:

RVT2002 · Joined: 11 Jan 2007 Posts: 21 Location: Illinois , USA

arlurt · Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:41 pm Post subject:

I was pleased with the price I paid for the engine, about £100 including commission and fees, it was just the shipping that shocked me.

The initial shipping estimate was £250 to send it FedEx air freight, but when FedEx were told it was a complete engine they refused to take it, unless it was certified "oil free". That left only the sea freight route, which I'd thought would be cheaper...

It was put it in a wooden crate, taken to the docks in Tokyo, put in a container with other things, then sea freighted to Southampton. From their a UK agent took over. They got it out of the contrainer and in to customs. There was customs duty, and more fees to pay, and then a carraige fee from Southampton to York. Total cost for shipping and carraige, a little over £900. So at this point the engine had cost me about £1000. To find it was seized with a rusted crank was just the icing on the cake.

Now I have to rebuild it, but I will get there, and will have a known quantity, and hopefully a few bits to sell to recover some of my costs.
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Gecko Racing · Joined: 16 Jan 2008 Posts: 11

Last night I read the whole thread in one sitting. What a great journey - thanks for taking the time to share it.

I tell myself when bike projects are beggining to frustrate, "the more you put in the more you get out". I'm sure it's true, as I've always found a bike that I've had to battle to get right is far more rewarding than one you just put petrol in and go. Keep the faith, it'll be one you never sell if you keep plugging away.

Cheers

Dan
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arlurt · Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject:

Hi Dan,

Thanks for the positive feedback... Strokerboy keeps telling me to get on with it, and I will. Sorry Tom but I think I have to keep it for the moment.

I'm working away at the moment which is why I haven't done an update for a while. I'd wanted to get the motors stripped before I came away so that PJ would have time to do the cranks, and so that I'd have cash to pay them. Unfortunately Christmas and pressures on getting the house finished sneaked up on me before I came away.

On the fun side though, I,ve bought a lathe to play with, and hopefully make some bits for the bike.

I'll be back home in February to crack on with it...

Thanks again, and keep an eye on the story. This one will run and run. Hopefully. Wink

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arlurt · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject:

Yeh, I know, It's been ages and no progress... I was working in India for all of January, and back in India again now. So no real progress on the bike. I'm bidding on bits on eBay because I've nothing better to do on a night here, but haven't actually achieved anything.

I bought a TZ crank from an Ausie chap, it's on it's way by sea. There's no rush because I'm here. I'm looking forward to seeing how similar the 3XV really s to the TZ. From the photos it looks like the TZ has a splined primary gear, and I believe the 3XV is keyed, but if I can get TZ gears for the Primary and balance shaft all may still be well.

Come on guys, tell me how yours will be on the road for spring and maybe I can build the enthusiasm to get mine sorted when I'm home in April.

Yours, brassed off of Bangalore.
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